# Into the Future

**URL:** <https://discourse.haskell.org/t/into-the-future/3463>\
**Category:** Haskell Foundation\
**Created:** [October 18, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/into-the-future/3463 "2021-10-18T18:38:30Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 2

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**Author:** ![anon58422685](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@anon58422685](https://discourse.haskell.org/u/anon58422685)\
**Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 7:57am UTC](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/into-the-future/3463/2 "2021-10-25T07:57:50Z")

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I tried to comment on Medium, but I found that there are problems with visibility _(nested comments are not always seen)_, so I put my questions here. Hopefully @myShoggoth will spot this comment. To be extra clear, this is a comment to [the post _«Into the Future»_ on Haskell Foundation medium](https://haskell-foundation.medium.com/into-the-future-8f8968094d91).

## How I see the post.

I like this write-up.

- It identifies both the target audience _(junior professional Haskell programmers)_ and the functionality that should be delivered to them _(tooling for interactive coding)_. Let us call this pair of criteria «business model» for short.
- It also tries to answer why by stating the mission _(to amplify Haskell’s impact on humanity)_.
- What I like the most is that it is low in sweet nonsense and high in bitter truth.

That said, it does leave some of the questions it raises or touches upon without an answer.

## The choice of a business model.

Even though this is a fine conceptual story, I find that the leap from the mission statement to the business model is one of faith. It is not that I doubt it or think that it will not work. What I am saying is merely that I do not see you deriving the business model from the mission statement, even though you hint at it:

> For our first major strategy we looked to generate positive feedback loops. Not only do we want to amplify Haskell’s impact on humanity, but we want to improve our community’s ability to make changes that do the same.
> 
> Plastic flower sculpture in a lake.
> 
> This focus translates into a bias for accepting Haskell Foundation Tech Proposals (HFTPs) that relate to tooling enhancements that make junior, professional Haskellers, more productive.

The plastic flower sculpture in a lake does not quite cut it.

What other business models have you considered? How did you estimate which one is the most effective?

## Measuring the positive feedback loop.

The linking concept seems to be that of a _«positive feedback loop»_. This sounds like you have a quantitative model. There is some quantity that affects the production of itself. Can you name this quantity? How can it be observed?

For example, we can look at the number of subscribers to the Haskell subreddit as a proxy for the quantity of junior Haskell professionals. From the data [I managed to dig up](https://subredditstats.com/), over the last year:

- /r/haskell has grown by 14%.
- /r/rust has grown by 35%.
- /r/AskReddit has grown by 12%.

I am going to take /r/AskReddit as a proxy for the growth of Reddit as a whole for now. Then the growth of Reddit as a whole explains away most of the growth of the Haskell subreddit. What remains?

- The amount of junior Haskell professionals grows at 2% per year.
- The amount of junior Rust professionals grows at 23% per year.

Is it fair to say that the efforts of the Haskell foundation should translate to a change in these numbers? Rust sets a bench mark of possible growth — how closely do we need to approach it in order to consider the business model to have worked?

Surely you have a better collection of indicators than what I have put together on a napkin over a breakfast. Can you share it?

## Hermeneutics of suspicion.

The Haskell community is that of idealists. But the money does not come from the community — it comes from companies — that is, from the managements of companies. It is reasonable to suspect that there are strings attached.

What do the managements want? Do they want to scale? Do they need more workforce in order to scale? Is their support conditional on your bringing in more workforce? What are the indicators they will apply to judge if their investment into the Haskell Foundation pays off? _(Surely not Reddit statistics!)_ Do all the managements want the same, or is there dissent among them?

In order for a company to invest money into the Haskell Foundation, they must foresee a return on investment. This should furnish us with an answer to the question I posed in the previous section. How much should the community grow by in order for the managements to perceive a big enough return on their investments?

Have you arrived at the business model independently or has it been given to you by the managements as a condition of funding?

I realize that this is an uncomfortable question. It is unfortunate that it has to be posed. I do not mean to hurt anyone. But I have to consider that there are actors that act in their own monetary self-interest, given how we are all embedded in a free market economy.

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