Hmm. Unless you’re about to reveal some unsettling truth about Microsoft Word, then yeah, I think it’s just an office program. To edit documents on your PC.
Why not? What is fundamentally different between civilian and military technology. Did the internet not start as a military technology? Should we go over all the stuff humanity came up with as part of military efforts?
Sure, we’re talking about weapons systems, which are indeed different. But:
- you can use civilian technology for criminal purposes (e.g. encrypted communications)
- you can use military technology for committing war crimes
And you can use both in legitimate ways as well. Unless you say self-defence is not legitimate (which is a fair standpoint, but not very insightful).
The moral dilemma of creating software that may enable immoral actions doesn’t just present itself in military industry. Are there differences? Sure, but they’re obscenely obvious in this case.
TL;DR: Don’t work for a weapons manufacturer if you can’t stomach it.
I guess we can move on.
3 Likes
the military has definitely been made more effective at its job thanks to tools like microsoft word. if you took that technology away from the military, it would tangibly hamstring it.
1 Like
alright, which mod hid that reply, that’s some nonsense.
Edit: it was f-a, which he admitted to via DM:
I did, and that is because this is off-topic and an example of “the night in which all cows are black”.
Keep it on topic — Anduril, not som hypothetical firm!
yeah so
The Night Where All Cows are Black. It’s a Yiddish proverb that means “all sexual partners look the same with the lights out.”.
i don’t know what the hell that DM is supposed to mean.
2 Likes
I think @cheater is being treated unfairly here.
The discussion had already gotten into thought experiments about if MS Word is unethical due to its tangible benefits for the military.
If anything, my read is they were arguing against such silly thought experiments with normal rhetoric. And was talking about Anduril and not a hypothetical firm.
2 Likes
I’d rather have this entire thread “hidden”. Going resource after resource after someone is called “stalking” and is definitely not an okay thing.
You don’t want work with military, we got it. Don’t apply there. You don’t like their CEO, corporate image or whatever, sure, don’t apply there. Their reputation is one query away even without your help.
3 Likes
I don’t think Haskell moderators should be deleting/hiding very real and relatively civil (if contentious) discussion relevant to Haskell 
5 Likes
Just because some do no like what is posted does not mean that it should be banned. It brings much followup conversation that enlightens everyone to the intricacies of the subject. Let people talk about what they want to talk about.
5 Likes
This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.
3 Likes
This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.
taxic thread… I wish we didn’t have one.
Here is my one cent, nonetheless: people wanting jobs may also want a say here. I am not sure if they have ever been heard.
Edit: they probably cannot because guilt by association and it’s hard to come out as a job applicant for a controversial company. Hence, we will never hear from them, and we will stay in our echo chambers comfortably.
3 Likes
if your conscience tells you what you’re doing is so bad that you cannot share it with your peers, perhaps you shouldn’t be doing it.
8 Likes
I understand people have strong opinions about things.
I want to gently ask people to cool down and be fairminded, simply by one account: if you are willing to suggest more than 3500 people (I just checked [the wiki entry of the company])(Anduril Industries - Wikipedia) are guilty of against conscience for decisions they have made, it is a HUGE accusation. For such a accusation, you must also be ready to be hold accountable and be ready to defend your opinion.
I understand the desire to be a vigilante for things you believe in, but there is a limit of how much we can take justice into our own hands. There is a price to be paid too if we were to expedite that due process in a society where that ought to be respected in normal circumstances.
I hope we are still in a normal society.
6 Likes
I appreciate there is nuance and difference of opinions in what it is and is not allowed of Haskell Discourse.
This is a thread about a specific firm, so if you have usable information by the prospective applicant, it is good to post it here.
For tangent discussions, reviews and proposals on the general Moderation policies on job postings or similar, please open a new thread if appropriate.
Let us keep this focused!
8 Likes
In case people are not aware, Anduril has also faced heavy controversy in the NixOS community, e.g. NixCon NA 2024 is getting sponsored by Anduril, what to do about it - NixCon - NixOS Discourse
4 Likes
Yeah. And last I checked NixOS came to a much better conclusion than this “politically neutral” one Haskell seems to have landed at that moderates away critical opinions of Anduril and has a clear bias.
Criticism isn’t moderated away? There’s a top-level post on this forum with criticism of Anduril. And on r/haskell, there is frequently criticism in the job postings.
Maybe I’m not understanding what the NixOS approach is. Does that Discourse not do this quarantine thing? There’s an argument it has a chilling effect for sure.
2 Likes
I think that the Haskell community handles it by far better than the Nix* community. I am very glad for the awesome job that the moderation team does in this community.
6 Likes
FYI