People can voice their concerns against Microsoft too, I remember there used to be similar comments under any job post of Facebook eg. [job] Work on GHC at Facebook London : haskell
Yeah, those replies are low-effort trashtalk. Thereâs a difference between dumping your opinion and actually sharing insightful information/thoughts.
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I hear if you donât want people to trash talk your job, you can post on Indeed or pay for an ad 
Or you can enjoy the free advertising on a forum if you have the stuff to handle criticism of your business. Iâd say most good businesses can handle that.
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Youâre not even wrong, but a word processor is a general-purpose tool, so improving it could be seen as a net positive for humanity. Itâs more difficult to make that argument for a weapons manufacturer.
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I think this argument is as old as time, but youâre aware theyâd bring up self-defense, right?
At this point the discussion becomes an ideological one, which makes it anything but insightful.
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Oh yes, I too have been thinking of getting âElectromagnetic Warfare Systemsâ for self-defense, itâs already on my shopping list.
By the way, Iâm not taking any sides here: I just want to point out that comparing this stuff to a word processor is disingenuous.
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Hit me up, I need to get on that group order, because the delivery fees are insane 
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Itâs not necessarily for personal self-defence. For instance, as a Ukrainian, I know better than many that electromagnetic warfare is an important component of national self-defence.
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On the topic of self-defense I think this post also has reasonable significance. After all the fight against entities promoting militarism / profiting from increase in violence, is also an act of âself-defenseâ from the point of view of general public. We must fight those invading borders and killing civilians, and also those that would want the wars to keep on going (which is surely every weapons manufacturer right?)
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Thatâs national security, not self-defense. But sure, national security is indeed a reason one could use to justify working on military technology. Some will find this argument convincing and some wonât â either way I donât have a problem with that position because itâs an honest engagement with the moral dilemma.
What I do take an issue with is comparing that to a clearly civilian technology of arranging letters on a page that simply happens to be used in a military context (in other news: military personnel also breathe the same air as the rest of us).
Andurilâs products arenât even in the same category as e.g. a knife, which, while a cold weapon, is also used in cooking. Their technology exists to track down and neutralize military targets. And itâs pretty impressive. But I donât know how well Iâd sleep at night if I had a hand in making something like that. You know better than to compare it to Microsoft Word.
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What about the work of Alan Turing wrt Enigma, which clearly caused the death of enemy soldiers?
It is called self-defence, see the Chapter VII, Article 51 of the UN charter.
To be clear: I havenât shared my political or ideological opinions in this thread. Iâm challenging motivation and reasoning.
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You refer to âthe bombeâ, correct? I donât think it can be compared to Microsoft Word either because it wasnât designed for everyday civil use.
Thanks, I was unfamiliar with this usage.
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Microsoft Word was? 
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Hmm. Unless youâre about to reveal some unsettling truth about Microsoft Word, then yeah, I think itâs just an office program. To edit documents on your PC.
Why not? What is fundamentally different between civilian and military technology. Did the internet not start as a military technology? Should we go over all the stuff humanity came up with as part of military efforts?
Sure, weâre talking about weapons systems, which are indeed different. But:
- you can use civilian technology for criminal purposes (e.g. encrypted communications)
- you can use military technology for committing war crimes
And you can use both in legitimate ways as well. Unless you say self-defence is not legitimate (which is a fair standpoint, but not very insightful).
The moral dilemma of creating software that may enable immoral actions doesnât just present itself in military industry. Are there differences? Sure, but theyâre obscenely obvious in this case.
TL;DR: Donât work for a weapons manufacturer if you canât stomach it.
I guess we can move on.
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the military has definitely been made more effective at its job thanks to tools like microsoft word. if you took that technology away from the military, it would tangibly hamstring it.
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alright, which mod hid that reply, thatâs some nonsense.
Edit: it was f-a, which he admitted to via DM:
I did, and that is because this is off-topic and an example of âthe night in which all cows are blackâ.
Keep it on topic â Anduril, not som hypothetical firm!
yeah so
The Night Where All Cows are Black. Itâs a Yiddish proverb that means âall sexual partners look the same with the lights out.â.
i donât know what the hell that DM is supposed to mean.
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I think @cheater is being treated unfairly here.
The discussion had already gotten into thought experiments about if MS Word is unethical due to its tangible benefits for the military.
If anything, my read is they were arguing against such silly thought experiments with normal rhetoric. And was talking about Anduril and not a hypothetical firm.
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Iâd rather have this entire thread âhiddenâ. Going resource after resource after someone is called âstalkingâ and is definitely not an okay thing.
You donât want work with military, we got it. Donât apply there. You donât like their CEO, corporate image or whatever, sure, donât apply there. Their reputation is one query away even without your help.
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