Controversy surrounding Anduril Industries

[sclv]

Here are some reddit threads that include many people with significant criticisms of anduril, not only a company which produces military hardware, but one whose founder and leads are quite outspoken in their promotion of militarism in their values and politics:

https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/14zogj0/anduril_hiring_haskell_developers/
https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/11vx9x4/anduril_hiring_software_engineer_haskell/
https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/dzb28x/anduril_is_hiring_numerical_programmers/
https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/9765vg/anduril_industries_is_hiring/

Especially now, with the use of american military hardware in an ongoing bloodletting in palestine that has killed many tens of thousands, including so many children, I would hope people would consider that in evaluating where they might wish to work.

And here is a discourse thread where the moderation team gave its verdict on why this is a valid topic to be raised in this thread:

Moderation policies on job postings

We have discussed the issue internally, and have decided on the following policy. We will also find a more prominent place to display our moderation policy soon. Moderation policy for job postings When taking decisions on how to moderate discussions about job postings on the forum, we try to act on principles which take the following positions of the community into account: Companies which offer Haskell jobs should have the possibility to announce their job offers in the “Jobs” subcategory, …

[nemo]

Isn’t this a tad redundant from OP’s post?

@TravisWhitaker

Yes, Anduril is an American defense technology company. We build weapons systems for the United States and its allies.

[f-a]

As per Moderation policy (drafted by David, which found community consensus), I split this topic. The link is visible from the job ad thread, so users can find the discussion easily.

If a question/comment is for the prospective applicant to the specific position, it goes in the original thread, otherwise here.

[sclv]

As far as redundancy, I’d note there’s a difference between them acknowledging they produce military weaponry, and the actual fact of how offputting and outlandish their corporate image and culture are in all respects, which is exceptional even for a military hardware manufacturer.

Founder Palmer Lucky is an outspoken Trump supporter and far-right flag-waver who was cut from Facebook under dubious circumstances

By all indications, the culture he has built at Anduril is one of edgelord jingoism. In reddit threads on the company, employees have posted american flags in response to any criticism. Their entire business model hinges on further militarization of the border and similar projects, since they’re targeting technologies for a “virtual border wall” etc.

Palmer Luckey’s surveillance startup Anduril signs contract for ‘virtual...

In general I understand wishing to draw a line between “employment discussions” and “the nature of a company” and broader political issues. Here it seems rather impossible, by design of the leaders of the company themselves.

[rhendric]

Barring a change to moderation policy, further discussion, critical or not, only gives them more publicity. Every time a thread with their company name in the title reaches the top of the Discourse thread list is another chance for passers-by to see it. Being intentionally provocative is part of their marketing strategy, as far as I can tell; I’d rather not give them more of what they want.

[TravisWhitaker]

Thank you for engaging with almost every single Anduril job post 🫡

[emilypi]

Thanks for doing your due diligence with reminding people of what Anduril do, @sclv! While it does suck that feeding their engagement comes at a cost, I agree that it’s necessary to remind people that a job with Anduril directly results in more unnecessary corpses than the average position at <tech job>.

[hasufell]

@emilypi

I agree that it’s necessary to remind people

I don’t. And I think most Haskellers will do some proper research before joining any company.

But at least this post isn’t like the average “blockchain is a scam” reply on reddit.

Also glad to see moderation is now making things more civil, so job ad posts aren’t constantly derailed.

[Ambrose]

I don’t think I’ve had a Haskell job that couldn’t be sniped as unethical by someone. Adtech, crypto, American megacorp, fintech. Maybe defense contractor just takes the cake? Because I never saw people attack those companies so doggedly.

[Ambrose]

Also, Anduril is like the rare job posting that comes by discourse/reddit that has an actual competitive salary.

Luckily, the companies who post below market salaries get roasted nowadays (on reddit at least).

[cheater]

Personally I don’t care Anduril make weapons, but I also don’t mind people reminding others of that. In particular I’m perfectly fine with what @sclv is posting even if I think in the current world, with crony dictators running >50% of the planet, the manufacture of weapons is a sad necessity and a result of a set of unnecessary circumstances.

I do care about the flakiness in communication which I mentioned in the original thread.

I think the fact Travis showed up, read that comment, and didn’t even respond just additionally proves the point that he just doesn’t know how to do good business. I’d stay away for that reason. Jobs aren’t something where you want a guy just ghosting you and not responding - it’s not serious behavior. Instead Travis spent his visit here with ironic jabs at detractors he has no reason to respond to.

[cheater]

@Ambrose

Luckily, the companies who post below market salaries get roasted nowadays (on reddit at least).

well, turns out Reddit mods don’t want that, because it’s “not nice” and every user on the subreddit has to be a member of the Haskell welcoming committee, so enjoy your salary being in a downward spiral I guess.

[maxigit]

Ironnicaly, the only effect of that type of discussion is to promote Anduril.

• Potential candidates receptive to the “more corpses” argument would not take job regardless (at the worst case, they would have left on the first day, realising what there are stepping in).

• People ready to take the job but who missed the advert, now will see it and can apply.

     Bad publicity is free publicity ...

[Kleidukos]

Thank you for speaking out so diligently over the years, from an “outside of the US” perspective, these days you never know when someone will drop a bomb on you in the name of the free world. Working for the Military Industrial Complex is far from trivial.

[hasufell]

@sclv

Especially now, with the use of american military hardware in an ongoing bloodletting in palestine that has killed many tens of thousands, including so many children

Just to add a reference: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext

It appears to be primarily civilians.

It’s also worth noting that US isn’t allowed (according to domestic laws) to ship weapons to countries that violate international law. And it’s also worth noting that countries who do anyway can be held liable for crimes against humanity.

Given the ICJ hasn’t properly ruled on these issues (they just gave a warning/suggestion regarding the west bank), it is indeed an “interesting” situation.

@sclv

Founder Palmer Lucky is an outspoken Trump supporter

As shocking as that may sound, but a lot of Americans are. And given that you brought politics up, I don’t see how that actually matters, since democrats are currently shipping weapons into “hot” regions.

---

Although I find the discussion mildly interesting, I’m not too convinced Anduril stands out amongst weapons manufacturers. Is Heckler & Koch better?

[BurningWitness]

@sclv

Especially now, with the use of american military hardware in an ongoing bloodletting in palestine that has killed many tens of thousands, including so many children,

From what I gather Anduril is a company that produces weapons; the choice as to where and how to use said weapons is under the sole purview of the federal government of the United States. Unless you have data that points to them try to cross this line, I say this point is very weak and indeed redundant as @nemo mentioned.

@sclv

Their entire business model hinges on further militarization of the border and similar projects, since they’re targeting technologies for a “virtual border wall” etc.

Does “militarization” imply anything beyond mere automated surveillance? I don’t see how automating border control is a bad thing in an of itself, countries have to enforce borders regardless.

@sclv

By all indications, the culture he has built at Anduril is one of edgelord jingoism. In reddit threads on the company, employees have posted american flags in response to any criticism.

I can definitely imagine a company run by a bunch of rich kids with loony views where noone takes their job seriously, but I can also imagine a company where that isn’t the case. Having examples of bad practices within the company and/or company’s PR dodging substantive criticism in a childish manner would definitely help.

[pranaysashank]

@hasufell

Although I find the discussion mildly interesting, I’m not too convinced Anduril stands out amongst weapons manufacturers. Is Heckler & Koch better?

I think if they’re posting a job here, we’d see similar comments.

[cheater]

@BurningWitness

Having examples of bad practices within the company and/or company’s PR dodging substantive criticism in a childish manner would definitely help.

scroll up to my post for one.

[hasufell]

@BurningWitness

From what I gather Anduril is a company that produces weapons; the choice as to where and how to use said weapons is under the sole purview of the federal government of the United States.

I think this is the crux of the issue. It’s much more interesting for potential candidates to research on US foreign policies than anything else. That will ultimately decide how your work may be put to use.

But that doesn’t seem very specific to Anduril as a company. The posts here however seem to suggest that even for a weapons manufacturer, they are particularly bad.

[Bodigrim]

I think Microsoft Word is a far greater enabler of US military ability than Anduril and Heckler & Koch together. And probably more financially lucrative than them as well.